Excretion vs Retention

Home Forums SIBO Mastery Oxalates Excretion vs Retention

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This topic contains 7 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Annette Anderson 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #685

    In regard to oxalate levels on the OAT. Could high levels in the urine be related to high intake and high excretion–so that levels retained within the body would not be problematic? Presumably some people would have genetics more conducive to excretion–? If oxalate levels in the tissues are high, how does one tell? Other than eliminating dietary oxalates, and candida, are there ways to improve the excretion of already retained oxalates? What do you think about nutrional lithium for this?

  • #687

    DrWoeller
    Keymaster

    Melanie,
    Sorry for the late reply. System wasn’t notifying my email of new posts.

    The difficulty with high oxalate is there typically isn’t one specific marker in other areas of the OAT that is directly caused just from oxalate. Therefore, I often see high oxalate without other markers being high, e.g. and then others where things like lactate is high or pyruvate too. Therefore, the marker needs to be correlated with patient symptoms such as painful muscles and joints, urinary pain, trigger point tenderness, etc.

    There are ways of promoting oxalate excretion which we will discuss later in the course, but the most common things are the following:

    -Calcium and Magnesium Citrate – I personally like the Cal/Mag Citrate from New Beginnings Nutritionals. I will use two capsules with each meal.
    -VSL#3 or ProBio Premium probiotics – high dose probiotics
    -Biotin – 5mg to 10mg daily
    -Low oxalate diet

    We will get into this much more in the oxalate talk.

    Sincerely,
    Dr. Woeller

    P.S. I don’t know about Lithium’s link to this situation

  • #689

    Thank you for your response. Additionally, I would like to know… what is the correlations between the amount of oxalate in the urine and the amount in the body? Couldn’t someone have a really strong ability to excrete oxalte, and then have a moderately high intake of oxalate in the diet–therefore leading high levels in the urine, but then low levels that are retained in the body? Do high levels in urine always mean a problem in the body? Does the ability to secrete oxalate vary from person to person? If a person doesn’t have symptoms, does that mean the high urine oxalate should be ignored?

  • #692

    DrWoeller
    Keymaster

    Melanie,
    That’s really difficult to say because high oxalate in the urine could be coming from a high oxalate meal as you mentioned. I spoke to a practitioner this weekend how had a patient with an oxalate of 17,000! She had intractable pain. This is an individual with extremely high levels stored in body.

    High levels in the urine do not always mean high levels stored in the body. You have to correlate the information to the clinical symptoms of the individual. Secretion of oxalate is individualized, but oxalate crystals are not a natural substance to be stored in the body so the body will attempt to get rid of them overtime.

    I wouldn’t ignore a high urine oxalate because you could be dealing with someone who is eating high oxalate foods and at some point develop a problem.

    Sincerely,
    Dr. Woeller

  • #763

    Annette Anderson
    Participant

    Do you mean B6 or biotin (B7)?

    There are ways of promoting oxalate excretion which we will discuss later in the course, but the most common things are the following:

    -Calcium and Magnesium Citrate – I personally like the Cal/Mag Citrate from New Beginnings Nutritionals. I will use two capsules with each meal.
    -VSL#3 or ProBio Premium probiotics – high dose probiotics
    -Biotin – 5mg to 10mg daily
    -Low oxalate diet

  • #764

    Annette Anderson
    Participant

    High-oxalate foods: raw versus cooked

    As I searched for possible ways to reduce oxalates in foods, I found this:
    https://www.nephure.com/resources/how-to-reduce-oxalate-by-cooking

    Boiling a high-oxalate food leaches oxalate into the water. If you’re cooking spinach, eat the boiled spinach, but don’t drink the water.

    Darn. I love drinking all the juice-water from my cooked vegetables. But I don’t have any pain symptoms, and I don’t think (but not sure) if I have any of the other symptoms. I haven’t taken an OAT recently (so don’t know if I have elevated oxalates).

    Question: if I want to continue to drink this vegetable juice-water, perhaps should I take a Cal-Mag supplement with it?… just to ensure I’m not affected by the oxalates in the vegetable juice-water.

    Another question:
    On the website link above, an enzyme product is promoted. (I know nothing about this, just found it today when looking for cooking methods.)
    Have you heard of this?

  • #765

    DrWoeller
    Keymaster

    Annette,
    Sorry again for the delay in responding. We are working on getting this software system to update it automatic replies.

    Drinking the water of high oxalate vegetables like spinach will definitely increase oxalates in the body. This can happen with even juicing too. The taking of calcium in these situations is a must. It may not prevent 100% absorption, but it will help.

    I am not seeing anything about an enzyme? Am I missing something?

    Sincerely,
    Dr. Woeller

  • #766

    Annette Anderson
    Participant

    The enzyme in the product link above is: oxalate decarboxylase enzyme

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